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18 Apr 2009, 4:22 PM
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#1 |
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Core Commander
Join Date: 18 Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 120
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Guide to Core
EDIT 11-9-09: Okay put the finishing stuff on it. If you guys have any questions that you feel I glossed over or if you have anything that might be useful to add feel free to ask. Now go play Core and dominate!
I waste a lot of my free time cruising around the internet looking for TA related things. One common thing I’ve always encountered is the Arm vs. Core discussion. It is rampant among Newbies and experts alike. The main difference is that with the experts the discussion is settled and the case is closed. Arm is superior to core. Now what I always find comical is when the experts suggest that Arm is better than core, then other less informed people disagree, pointing out nuances and specialties that Core has that make it, in their minds, better than Arm. Or they list their agreement which usually happens to be a list of units that are essentially useless. So then what is the answer to the question? The answer is simple: it depends on the map. In common play as of this writing there are two maps where Core is better than Arm: The Pass and Darkside. On all other maps, Arm is superior. As far as my credibility on the subject, I think it is safe for me to say that I am one of the most experienced Core players in the world. I’ve experimented with many different strategies and have put many things to the test to see if Core is truly viable in many situations. This guide goes hand in hand with Beeky’s Guide to every unit in TA. He hits on many of the nuances and abilities of units. He doesn’t go into depth as to how to win with core. When Beeky was doing the majority of his playing the disparity between Core and arm was considered settled, and to my knowledge there were few people trying to push the envelope with Core. So these little updated articles on the units and ways to build strategies around them will help you understand the differences, advantages, and disadvantages of playing Core in an OTA game. (OTA v. 3.1 with CC and cavedog units installed.) Also I would recommend having the TA Demo-recorder installed as well as the MCNterra file (I know there is controversy surrounding this file, but there are several links in this guide to Demos that demonstrate certain aspects of the game. This guide also assumes simple understanding of the games concepts and controls, such as real-time management, resource management, unit control, how to bomb, repair, nanoblock, spark, multi-reclaim, offscreen, and all of that other jazz. Also do your homework and read Beeky's guide first. Last edited by Postal; 9 Nov 2009 at 11:01 PM. |
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18 Apr 2009, 4:23 PM
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#2 |
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Core Commander
Join Date: 18 Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 120
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Postal’s Guide to Core
General Assertions: Congratulations, Commander, you have decided to play Core. There is one thing you need to recognize immediately: You are going to lose. In every game you step into you are going to be out-produced, outgunned, and out raided by your Arm opponents. You’re eternally handicapped and will almost always have less territory, less resources and less units. Don’t try to argue with this definitive guide. I will explain all of Core’s Advantages that I am privy to, but know from the beginning here that they do not make up for the deficit between the two sides. This handy dandy guide will explain things in a unit to unit format to help understand some key comparisons between units and how to compensate for them. Also note that several ways of using these units, will not be available to you if your opponent counters them correctly. Always be adaptive, and always be ready to change your approach if the situation warrants. The Commander Herein lies one of the greatest disadvantages to Core. The Arm Commander is superior to the core commander in that it accelerates and walks faster than its Core Counterpart. This means that if both you and your Arm opponent walk to the first three starting mexes, you are going to be behind. He is going to take the lead simply because his commander is a better power-walker. There are a few things to remember past what Beeky says. As a Core commander it is much more important to minimize the distance that you have to walk, especially in the beginning of the game. Choosing to walk your commander is much more detrimental because of the amount of time it takes for him to build whatever he is getting to. Pay attention to where your commander is and build structures right next to him (so long as you’re not blocking labs or something along that line) if it possible to do so. When walking him away from your start position (Something that, in my opinion, should only be done under special circumstances depending on the map) make sure your start position is adequately defended and make sure that you are taking full advantage of the resources on the way. That said your core commander is a key part of the game and as a core player it is always important to know how to shoot the D gun effectively. Always have enough energy to D-Gun, and know that missing is unacceptable. A solitary missed D gun shot can cause you to lose games. Level 1 Construction K bot What could the differences between these units be? There really is little difference. The difference in cost is ever so negligible and the speed and build power of these units still pales in comparison to the construction vehicle. For land based campaigns as the original unit guide suggests, these are next to useless. However, they are more useful than the original guide suggests. For 131 metal you get +.25 metal production and +9 energy production as well as additional energy and metal storage. Basically an idling construction K bot is slightly more efficient at producing resources than a solar. They also are much more difficult to kill and can be used to build if need be. The downside of this is that they are built slower than solars. Plus the initial investment of 600 metal into the K bot lab means it takes more time for the “investment” to mature and pay for itself. Once you get enough the resulting economy can be extremely useful. Arm K bots cost 11 metal less, but produce 1 less energy. As a result, in extremely Low resource situations the construction K bot is a viable way to produce resources to power your Fighting machine. The two examples of this are on The Pass and Coast to Coast: http://www.tadrs.tauniverse.com/inde...go=all&id=1241 http://www.tadrs.tauniverse.com/inde...go=all&id=1607 Now on the Pass K bots has pretty much become the way to go as far as winning. Or a combination of solars MMs and K bots. But either way in order to continue building more and more resources The K bots are key. On Coast to Coast, the strategy is not as powerful. There are slightly more resources on the map, and the other player can get water resources which are more efficient and faster than K bot farming. In either case, simply building K bots is not going to defeat a superior player you need other aspects to win on these maps. On maps with more resources the strategy is not as viable. http://www.tadrs.tauniverse.com/inde...go=all&id=1532 (You may have to do .speed 20 or .speed 30 as this demo inexplicably accelerates) They have another use as well: I was messing around on Gods of war building an absurd amount of K bots when I realized that K bot cons are capable of multi-reclaiming. Simply take a group of K bots and place them all as close to the rock as possible. Highlight them all, and then click once on the rock to reclaim it (Do not click more than once like with Air multi reclaim It doesn’t matter if the green nanolathes start at the same time, the multi-reclaim will still be successful). Watch the K bots, make sure that they all start unfolding their nanolathes at the same time. If one does not hit “S” or click the stop button and wait until they fold up and then try again. If one starts walking toward it hit stop and get that K bot to get within range first. I am not sure if the Arm K bot can do this as of this writing, but I know for a fact that the Core K bot can and will do so with about a 80% or so success rate. On Gods of war with 5 rocks or so to reclaim on every island, this guarantees enough metal to pay for your K bot factory and to give you a head start on your opponents. When it comes to multi-reclaiming, K bot cons are more difficult to destroy than air cons, and have more build power making them the ideal con for a fast multi-reclaim. The disadvantage of this is, once again, the fact that it is slower to get going than most strategies. And time is a very precious commodity in TA. The fairness of K bot multi-reclaiming has not been discussed very much as it is such an unknown factor. Seeing as there is a downside, I feel that K bot multi-reclaiming is very a strategic decision that, when used correctly, can be beneficial, but catastrophic if executed poorly. K bot cons should never be overlooked as a resource option. If you’re on an open land map with plenty of resources, they should be a very distant option. Map control is always most important. But once that is taken care of K bot cons are important assets for the Core Commander. Level 1 Construction Vehicle Again comes the same quandary that truly makes Core inferior to Arm: the Arm construction vehicle is significantly faster than the Core construction vehicle. It opens its nano-lathe faster, moves faster, and accelerates faster. The Arm Construction vehicle is capable of retreating and nanoblocking as it runs, whereas the Core construction vehicle accelerates too slowly to do this effectively. If your cons start taking hits they are usually helpless. I rarely play as Arm in all of my years of playing TA. I remember playing one specific game where I did a “role reversal” game against Cosmicbaby on the Amazon. The first thing that I noticed was how fast my Arm construction vehicles moved, how fast they opened up and how quickly they executed my commands. In my opinion this is one of the biggest advantages in the game for Arm. Lets say, for the purposes of this example, that what the Core construction vehicle can do in 60 seconds, the Arm construction vehicle can do in 55. So in an Arm vs. Core Game lets say you both do the same starting build and build 4 construction vehicles. 60 seconds into the game, you (Core commander) are behind by about 20 seconds. 5 seconds for each construction vehicle. What this means is that he could have 2 or 3 more missile towers, or have a few more metal extractors capped. The difference is huge. So how does one fight with these cumbersome and inferior construction vehicles? As with the Commander always minimize the amount of distance that a con must travel to complete its task. If you are attempting to build missile towers quickly, build them immediately next to your con. You can build 4 or 5 missile towers without ever having to have your con move. This is a much faster way to increase the firepower of your MT forest. If your con falls under attack and you have units coming to save it, it will most likely be unable to get a dragons tooth started. (Whereas an ARM con vech can do this to defend itself form Missiles, the Core con is woefully slow at getting it started and will often have its nanoframe destroyed.) If you have units nearby to come in and save it, have it nanoblock or run toward the units. If your con is out in the middle of nowhere and falls under attack by flashes, chances are you’re not going to get away. Set it to run in one direction or give it a couple move orders to keep your opponent busy. Don’t bother wasting any more time on it, it is dead. Level 2 Construction K bot This is one of the saddest units in the game. It’s bugged so that it cannot guard or even execute a string of commands without being babysat. I would more than welcome a new unit designed exactly the same with the bugfix for all TA players to download. This would make the Core advanced K bot lab more viable, as they would have a slower and more cumbersome, but still effective, guard for their aircraft plants similar to the fark. Level 2 Construction Vehicle But because Core does not have a properly functioning advanced K bot, I introduce to you Core’s Fark, the Advanced Construction vehicle. As well as giving access to the advanced buildings they have an excellent build power and a good work ethic unlike their K bot cousin. I used to think that core was incapable of keeping up with Arm in Hawk production because of the fark, but in actuality, 4 advanced construction vehicles on an advanced aircraft plant producing vamps (5 if producing bombers) can pump out enough vamps to make a swarm fairly quickly. It isn’t as fast, but it works well and can surprise Arm players who may think that Core simply cannot produce enough advanced air to make a difference. Also these are instrumental in producing one of Core’s most powerful weapons: the Shadow. Now read through Beeky’s assessments on the Arm units and note that for the most part, all of his comparisons are spot on. Last edited by Postal; 1 Aug 2009 at 12:23 AM. |
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18 Apr 2009, 4:26 PM
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#3 |
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Core Commander
Join Date: 18 Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 120
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Level 1 K Bots One thing to note immediately about Core’s Level 1 K bots is that the construction vehicle can guard the lab with a simple command. There is no need to tell it to build dragons teeth or structures to keep it in place. Simply issue the guard order and issue a move order for the factory out of the top for the fresh K bots. A con on the factory doubles its build speed. So a vech con guarded factory is the equivalent of having 2 factories. This is quite the advantage. AK- Beeky’s assessment is right on the money. I’ve attempted to duplicate the fast peewee start using Aks with disastrous results. They really are pathetic. Storm- One thing to note is that even though storms rockets fire faster than rockos, they do less damage. In a one on one fight where both units stand and shoot at each other, they will both die at the exact same time. However in general, higher rate of fire is preferred (Flash anyone?) As there will be more shots, and less chance of ridiculous overkill. Storms are a Slasher horde’s best friend as they provide LOS and are just plain good at dishing out damage. Their faster speed make them better fighters against Rockos because they’re more capable of dodging shots. One thing to notice is that Storms are easily countered with flashes. If someone drives flashes into your storms, keep your distance. Storms are excellent units when being chased by anything. So take advantage of this. Saving up a group of storms to punch through Missile tower defenses is common. Instead of sending them one at a time to provide LOS to your Slasher group, save up a large pack of them. In several games I have a few guarded K bot factories producing storms while my Slashers fight on the front line. I will allow myself to get gradually pushed back until I am incredibly close to breaking, and then unleash the storm horde, usually allowing me to claim back all of the territory I sacrificed and more. Thud- The thud is a very specialized unit. The Ability to climb hills is incredibly useful. Anything that your commander can climb, the Thuds can climb. This is especially useful on maps like John’s pass and Lusch puppy, where you can set your thuds up on a hill and force fire attack at their feet. They will overshoot and then lob their shell down into your opponents base, much to their annoyance. This is one of the best ways to draw out a commander. And drawing out a commander is very important (This will be discussed in the Shadow, Section) http://www.tadrs.tauniverse.com/inde...t&go=all&id=98 In this Demo, one of the early great Core Commanders, Cytree, uses the Thud’s climability. Thuds can be used also as a ground attack force on maps such as Great divide, where often Arm opponents will overlook defending their flanks, thinking that no units can reach them through their solitary guardian and Heavy laser tower. A horde of thuds walking over a hill can walk around their defenses to make quick work of resources. Crystal maze also has several thud climbable hills, where you can set them up to shell otherwise unreachable defenses, or DTed in HLTs. Thuds are map specific, and powerful, so use them wisely. Crasher- It’s a shame that this unit blows so much. Build only in desperation. Level 1 Vehicles Weasel- This is one of the 3 key Core units. Early in the game they are your raiding force. Sending them out in pairs or in groups of 3 can kill construction vehicles and mexes. Also it is important to note that 2 actively controlled weasels will kill a flash (if done properly) 3 Weasels will take down a Samson. 2 can destroy a missile tower. The downside of this is that it requires a lot of real time to manage weasels to make them most effective. You cannot send packs of weasels into flashes or samsons and expect them to come out ahead. The best thing to get with these is obviously a construction vehicle. You can put your opponent very behind by surprising them and raiding them on the fringes with weasels. Instigator- Gators truly do suck compared to flashes. Flashes and Missile units make quick work of them and they cost more than a Flash does. This does not make them useless though. Using gators effectively can enable you to gain control of the map in the same way that using flashes can. Take advantage of terrain to protect you from Missile units. Avoid flashes in even number fights, as they will always come out ahead (unless you run a circle around it and your opponent is ignoring the fight. Mixing them with weasels is effective as well, as the weasel will give additional firepower, while the instigator takes the hits. They’re good but it is best to switch to Slashers if the map and the situation warrants. There are some cases when it is entirely possible to avoid using instigators altogether and simply just go Slashers. (team games more so than 1v1s) Raiders- The raider stumpy comparison here is almost exactly opposite to the Flash and Gator situation. Stumpies truly suck compared to raiders. This still isn’t enough to overcome the void left by the Gators inadequacies. Really the only time this is useful is if you’re looking for a meat shield for your Slashers. In heavy wreck field situations raiders do nicely. I have had a solitary raider kill 6 or 7 samsons because the samsons never really got a good shot on it because of the wrecks of their comrades. But for the most part you should avoid this unit. Slashers- This is also one of the 3 key Core units. Learning how to properly use Slashers is a must for all Core commanders. One of the most important things to note is something that Beeky says in the section on the flash: “However with large numbers of missile units, you should attempt to keep back. Inexperienced players sometimes throw their flashes into the maw, expecting them to destroy all, when in fact they get wiped out by missile units” A large group of Slashers will always defeat a large group of flashes. When the first flash dies, the others will get jammed up behind it and find themselves being picked off. Several flashes will die before they even get to fire a shot. It is possible to be very aggressive with Slashers. On certain maps where the start positions are close enough, it is possible to move up quickly with radar. Using all of your Slashers at the front line, you force your opponent to meet you with whatever units he has produced otherwise you can continue to radar creep with your Slashers well into his base. So for every flash he has on the periphery, you have a Slasher knocking on his front door. In order for this to work you must close down your opponent quickly. Send your construction units in the line between your slasher front line and your vehicle lab. This will be the safest place for them as you will have radar along the way, as well as Slashers moving forward into the fight. If your opponent rushes your Slasher team with flashes, always have them move away. Do not move forward and allow the flashes to shoot. Always retreat. If your opponent keeps sending flashes at you, you will continue to kill them and not lose very many Slashers, enabling you to build up a sizeable force, and control the wreckage fields at the same time. This demo, while boring, demonstrates head on attack of slashers and radar targeting vs. flashes. It seems linear, but noting the kills to losses and comparing it to the resource results from the .total command lets you know how the difference is panning out. http://www.tadrs.tauniverse.com/inde...go=all&id=1623 One thing to pay attention to is the amount of kills you have in relation to the amount of kills your opponent has. If you are ahead by a 2 to 1 ratio, this can help make up any resource deficit. Being really aggressive and moving up radar beyond your metal extractor expansion. Move your radar up as close to the opponent as you can and always be radar targeting. Watch for movement and be prepared to run in case of a flash attack. This strategy will only work if your opponent does not compensate for it quickly. If he catches on he’ll switch to his own missile units to stop your and use what little raiding units he’s produced to limit your expansion. Without at least a 2 to 1 ratio, the tactic is ineffective. The ability to shoot over wreckage is also important. In Slasher vs Samsons fight, you can use individual pieces of wreckage to protect your slashers. Also pressing your slashers directly into his samsons is better for you than it is for the Arm commander. Mastering Slashers is incredibly important for Core. Knowing how and when to use these is the key to success in any land map where an Arm commander gives you a chance to win. Leveler- A bizarre unit that completely fails at the role it was intended for. The only role it fills is that of an inaccurate artillery piece in low gravity situations. It actually has the muzzle velocity to send its round pretty far in low gravity situations, simply by force-firing near the unit and letting it overshoot. With enough practice a Core commander can have a relatively cheap and less effective guardian to deploy on low gravity maps. Level 1 Air Fink- A scout. Information is ammunition: Scout frequently. Avenger- Of all of the things produced out of the Core air lab, the avenger is the most inadequate. The freedom fighter turns and accelerates faster than the Avenger, and is generally more maneuverable. The only benefit of the avenger is that it is easier to fly backwards. Contrary to what Beeky says, on maps where you believe that your opponent will go air first, an avenger first is not a bad option, but know that once a freedom fighter is out, assuming you are both paying attention to the dogfight, the avenger will usually come out last. One of the ways to see too it that the fight stays even is to make your avenger fly into the freedom fighter (Or stay as close as possible) that way, when a missile hit is scored, both fighters will die. On several occasions I’ve kept the air battle even by using this trick. If your opponent is air, a fast avenger can win the game for you if you camp the air pad well. Shadow- This is it. If there is one reason to pick Core, and suffer all of the other inadequacies, this is the unit right here. In some games this is the only unit I fight for, the only reason why I stay alive is so that I can make use of the Shadow. Core commanders, this unit is not just your friend, it is your lifeline. Knowing how to use them is what separates good Core commanders from great Core commanders. Out of all the units I have used in my Core experience, the shadow has gotten me called “Cheap” and a cheater more than any other unit. More people have quit games and threatened to quit based on the shadow than any other unit I have used (a distinction usually held by the flash for Arm commanders). I don’t cheat, so in a way this is a compliment. This is the same thing as the flash being called cheap, and some people used to accuse people of using it as being cheaters. The shadow gets similar treatment when used properly. This should let you know how good it really is. Before I go into how incredible this unit is, though, I first have to point out its flaws. Compared to its Arm cousin, it is inferior at one thing: raiding. The arm bomber is better at dodging missiles, accelerates faster and moves faster over all. The Arm bomber is more likely to drop a payload and get away than the Core bomber is. This is almost like getting another free bomber, as all the Arm commander has to do is repair it back at their base. So in the early game it is better to have an Arm bomber to do those quick raids. If you have a choice, your 2 minute bomber should be a Thunder. That’s not to say the Shadow is poor at raid bombing. On the contrary, the Shadow is excellent at it. It is easier to hit targets as they drop more bombs. It is easier to line bomb with a Shadow and it is easier to destroy factories in fewer passes in the beginning moments of the game. A shadow being attacked by little anti-air is a powerful raider, and going air first and rushing out a Shadow can be the death of your opponent. Because the Shadow is slower, though, you must make liberal use of off-screen. Chose bombing vectors that enable you to escape off-screen easily if your opponent has 2 missile units or more. Target these AA structures or units in your bombing passes and attempt to destroy them. Sometimes if you don’t get a missile tower with your bomber, it will get you before it can get away. Living to bomb again is very important. Raid bombing is important and effective mid game as well. Since Core does not have the Flash as an effective ground raider, a mid-game bomber (if you can spare the resource) will often surprise your opponent and have devastating effects on their economy. Having a handful of bombers take out a couple early factories can also give you the edge you need to make up the deficit of having gone air, and place you slightly ahead. Take the time to learn how many bombers it takes to destroy important things. It takes 2 Shadows to destroy a geothermal in a single pass, and it takes 3 to destroy an air lab or Vehicle lab, and 4 or 5 to destroy an actively building K bot lab depending on the angle that you take. Now one of the Shadows true strengths comes in the form of the Bomber stack. I was surprised as I’ve watched demos of old great core Commanders that not one of them takes advantage of this magnificent feature (bug?). Simply take your air lab, and tell it to move. Then hold shift and click patrol in the EXACT same location, to the pixel. Every bomber that comes out will move to that location and then will overlap with another bomber. How is this good? Normally if you want to destroy a high profile target, such as a big bertha or advanced lab, it is common practice to fan the bombers out. This is usually successful, but this means if a second target is to be chosen it must be along the correct angle, and also must be far enough away form the first target that enough bombers will drop bombs to destroy it. A bomber stack has the benefit of being able to drop 100% of its payload to one location. Treat it like an individual bomber bombing metal extractors, except instead of hitting extractors you can target structures ( and units) that can be destroyed by the proper amount of bombers. In order to find out how many bombers you have in your stack, simply look at the aircraft plant that is producing them. Lets say you cued up in multiples of 100, if you see that the plant is queued up for 86 you know you have 14 bombers in your stack. As you use it try to remember a rough estimate of what the number is so you can try to keep track of when your bomber stacks are going to be effective enough for what you need them. So this may seem great but what about the problem of Anti air? If this technique is used on Arm bombers the Thunders disintegrate when struck with 3 or 4 missiles. Regardless of how many you have in the stack, they all die. With a Core bomber stack, the enemy Anti Air units will target the closest bomber. Because all of the bombers are practically on top of each other, they will all target the same bomber. For some reason, with Shadows, only the bottom bomber will take damage. The splash damage does not travel up the stack. So the bombers will die one at a time due to anti air. The explosion of the bottom bomber dying will do damage to the top bomber, but it is minimal. Eventually all of the bombers will die because of a chain reaction, but by then the damage is done. What does this mean to the Core commander? This means that pinpoint destructive bombing raids can happen in the toughest of Anti Air situations. I have had a bomber stack fly through a swarm of hawks, and proceed to destroy 5 Advanced air labs while being shot by flakkers and missile towers. I have had Shadow Stacks drop bombs and kill commanders and survive the commander explosion, again because only the bottom bomber takes the damage. Its devastating in a team game to bomb a commander and then have that very same stack continue to bomb key targets in their allies base. Air labs and advanced factories, fusions, shipyards, and Collies are easy targets. When using a bomber stack make sure you scout well. Mark absolutely everything, then choose an angle and bomb every last mark on that angle. Your bomber’s instant reload time will insure that every target will get hit along the way. Another advantage of the stack is that it only appears as one dot on the radar. The first few Shadow stacks you send in will be ignored, whereas a big cloud of bombers gets more attention and can bring in fighters if they are present. To most players a single dot isn’t anything worth bothering over. When a stack flies in and obliterates their base they’ll learn fairly quickly. This also allows you to use single scouting units and other solitary dots to get their attention. If they see a single dot moving toward their base they may react with their entire air force, only to find a runaway fink. You can use this to distract and annoy them and have them wasting time and second guessing before the real payload comes in. I mentioned earlier about it being important to be able to draw the enemy commander out. If the commander is forward guarding something simply mark it and scout the rest of the base. As your bomber stack approaches casually sling some bombs toward the commander while proceeding to hit your real target. With a normal bombing run, typically not enough bombs will be released by the spread out bombers. Again, an enemy is more likely to notice a cloud of bombers than a single dot. Also by attacking the commander you are going to lose the ability to use your bombers on structures that you want to kill in the same run. With the bomber stack, the quick attack toward the commander is easy to do and because of the fact that the bomber behaves like a single bomber it is very easy to select the next target and move to other high profile things. Several times when I have dropped a “couple” bombs toward an enemy commander as I continue on my bombing runs I have seen one or two of the “bombs” hit the commander and take him out of the game. Like all things in TA, the Shadow Bomber stack has its downsides. The first notable downside is that it is easy to nanoblock a bomber stack using winds or metal storages. As the entire payload is delivered at one once and not over a period of time, your opponents will only need one structure in front of smaller labs and fusions in order to block all of the bombing power. The blocking structure will most likely be vaporized and not leave a wreck, but the real target will survive. Using two bomber stacks one, immediately after another (or two simultaneously, by using grouping and having switchalt on) can help mitigate this, but this is harder to pull of and requires more bombers. If you have a key target that must absolutely be killed in a single pass (such as a Bertha) it may be better to fan the bombers out instead of using a stack. The best way to produce a bomber stack is to have advanced construction vehicles guarding a lab. A commander or 4 K bot guarded lab will produce bombers quickly enough (as well as a lab guarded by two construction vehicles), but know that if you truly want to keep your opponents base free of factories, you’ll need more than just one air lab producing stacks. Overall this unit is key in the majority of situations. Becoming efficient with a Shadow will be what makes or breaks you as a Core commander. |
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18 Apr 2009, 4:26 PM
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#4 |
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Core Commander
Join Date: 18 Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 120
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Valkyrie- Transports are plenty useful. One of the things that get overlooked about them is the ability to steal arm technology with them. Simply pick up an enemy con and fly it back to your commander. While it is still in the air, select capture, and then click on the con. It will be yours and you will be free to build all of the Farks and Flashkers that you please, assuming they don’t offend your eyes.
Level One Ships Searcher- In a one on one fight with the Skeeter, if they are both using just their missiles, the Searcher will win. In a close fight where the lasers are involved, the skeeter wins. What does this mean? Keep your distance from Arm Skeeters. Their faster turret turn rate will win the day for them in a close fight. Staying back with an even number will slowly but surely spell victory for Core. When fighting pelicans, it is useful to drive the skeet up into the pelican’s path to stop it so that the enforcers can actually hit the pelican. Once you create one pelican wreck at the bottom of the water the others will not be able to pass over it (due to a bug) This will cause all of the subsequent pelicans to stop momentarily, which is all your enforcers need to pick them apart. Enforcer- Here is where the slower turret turn rate comes more into play. While it has slightly better stats in everything else (And slightly lower cost) the fact that it cannot turn its turret very fast is a problem. For this reason alone, the Crusader is a better ship in my opinion. This is the key Core unit for combating pelicans. Use them in conjunction with Searchers to protect them and provide LOS. Envoy- More fun than it is useful. Building one, using it, and reclaiming it is an interesting concept, although generally considered useless. Snake- Beeky’s is good here. One important thing to know for the core commander is that you can force fire the torpedoes to destroy pelicans. On maps with narrow waterways, or in a situation where the shores may have heavy Missile tower defense, It can be useful to use Subs to destroy the pelicans. It does take time to micromanage the subs though, and time is a valuable resource. Know that enforcers are a better method for combating pelicans. |
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18 Apr 2009, 4:31 PM
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#5 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 8 Apr 2009
Posts: 21
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YES! Thank you man. Im a big fan haha
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18 Apr 2009, 4:56 PM
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#6 |
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TA's spirit [Formerly François]
Join Date: 12 Jun 2005
Posts: 3,396
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Now, about ARM. Ah but, there's only one thing to say about ARM: victory!
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C'est plus facile que d'écrire un livre! |
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21 Apr 2009, 12:36 AM
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#7 | |||||||||||||
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Registered User
Join Date: 26 Sep 2001
Posts: 173
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Great stuff, Postal. I learned more than I expected to! Keep it coming.
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I was pretty excited when I first saw that recording 2 or 3 years ago -- not only did it lead me to love The Pass, but it also showed that completely new strategies can still come out in this game a decade later! I will also note that the k-bot strat is somewhat viable on Lava & Two Hills as well, though it'll be more necessary to supplement it with solars and extractors (effective on the ground in L&TH, potentially a better choice than MMs) unlike on The Pass. Quote:
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A well-microed Gator WILL defeat a poorly microed Flash, but this is unrealistic in large groups and also takes some of your valuable time. If only the Gator has 2.0 speed to the Flash's 1.9 instead of the other way around  Quote:
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Maybe I'll finally be able to justify a decade of playing Core now ;O Quote:
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I was trying to test how good Searchers are at range compared to Skeets (they are definitely worse up close, as you noted), but we ended up figuring out that I was simply much better at microing the units -- I could slaughter the opponent I was testing this stuff with even when I had the Skeets and he had the Searchers. So, I don't have any real figures on this one yet unfortunately. I'll have to try to test it against someone of equal or better skill sometime and see if I can get anything resembling accurate numbers for the differences, but for now we'll just leave it with 'Searchers are better, but keep your distance'. Quote:
Worth noting here is that it is actually better for the Enforcers to get up close to the Pelicans in most cases, rather than trying to blast them from afar. Yes, you'll then get shot by their lasers, but it is very important to force-fire your depth charges on Pelicans if you want to defeat them. A group of Enforcers vs an equal-cost group of Pels will lose big every time no matter what you do (well, assuming the Pels are moving towards you) unless you get those depth-charges firing. |
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21 Apr 2009, 5:12 AM
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#8 | |||||
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Core Commander
Join Date: 18 Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 120
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The other element that force firing depth charges adds is the fact that it takes time to make this truly effective. And you have to spend a great deal of time focusing on your Enforcers struggling to keep them alive. Micro managing their every shot is often times not worth it. Occasionally it is, but I've found that jumbling the pelicans up in Searchers with enforcer back up is the best way of dealing with them. Quote:
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Anyway I appreciate the feedback. I'll have another section up soon enough. Especially since my computer has been acting up, and my router acts up the other half of the time, so TA games are hard for me to come by. I'll get it fixed eventually... Last edited by Postal; 21 Apr 2009 at 5:29 AM. |
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21 Apr 2009, 8:15 AM
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#9 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: 26 Sep 2001
Posts: 173
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Veteran status was beyond the scope of the tests I did, though we did try a searcher wall in front and that seemed to do equally or worse compared to getting in close and force-firing depth charges. (I'll also note that blocking the Pels with Searchers takes some micro time too, though less than depth charges.) For some more specific numbers, we had 7 Enforcers versus 18 Pels (equal cost). If you simply send them all in together, Pels win with several (maybe half) left alive). If you just try to keep distance with the Enforcers, Pels still win and only do slightly worse. If I blocked off the Pels with Searchers (again, doing equal cost - so fewer Enforcers), I'd end up left with 2 or 3 Enforcers alive and all Pels & Searchers dead. Finally, if I just sent in all the Enforcers into the mess and microed my depth charges, I'd be left with 4-5 Enforcers left alive of my original 7. (And yes, the Pels were moving the whole time in each scenario.) Basically, most of the Pels' damage was coming from the missiles, and trying to avoid the lasers also tended to mean less accurate cannon fire. Exchanging depth charges for laser fire is a definite net gain - and non-veteran cannons are also more likely to hit at close range as well. (*Curiously, the damage/reload numbers seem to indicate that it's more of a break even scenario, but I think the turrets on the lasers + their short range is probably what makes them dish out less than the depth charges.) Granted, no test will ever quite compare to a real game, and I didn't even think to take Veteran status into account. Overall I guess I'd say that it's in need of some more testing with some different scenarios to get a better idea. My best bet for a true answer is that both methods can be the best - but it's situational (like everything else in TA); your stay far/get veteran approach is probably better in most circumstances? I guess I can't really say definitively either way at this point. Maybe I'll try watching some recordings of you at sea sometime and get a few ideas for some more tests 
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21 Apr 2009, 3:03 PM
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#10 |
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NERDs clanleader
Join Date: 20 Jan 2000
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 295
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The end of the Arm is the Fist!!!
Nice to learn new things about TA after 10 years. Keep it up! I always enjoyed demo's from good Core players such as Cytree and Gnug315. I will put some of this to practice in the lan with the other NERDs this weekend.
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NERDs R GOGO! |
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21 Apr 2009, 9:12 PM
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#11 |
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Biggest spammer ever.
Join Date: 6 Dec 2000
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 15,401
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If this was an Arm tutorial it would have been constructed faster and would be finished by now.
j/k. TA in-jokes aside, great tutorial.  There's a few things in there I didn't know.
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Mayhem Inc. -- Total Mayhem on ModDB -- Play TA online: TA Forever If you don't have a strategy, you're part of someone else's strategy. - Alvin Toffler, Futurist
My career highlight was making TA. Nothing has ever beat that, as I reflect back on the past 30 years. - Chris Taylor (Reddit AMA) |
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22 Apr 2009, 3:04 AM
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#12 |
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ad infinitum et ultra.
Join Date: 25 Oct 2005
Age: 34
Posts: 450
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Honestly, if you take what Postal is saying right here and apply it to the Arm or the Core you would be amazed at how much better you'll be able to play. At any rate this is some darn good information.
This may sound a bit odd, but I think the Arm and the Core are balanced. You just have to know how to play them and how to play the maps. Regardless of the side you choose. There are maps that favor the Core, yes. I remember playing you on GPP Postal in a 2v2. It was you and Hardcore versus me and ACE_BeanX. After watching the replay I know what I did wrong. But I watched what you did and must say that you took a risk, but it did pay off. I can also distinctly remember you using Storms the way you mentioned above. Good info though mate.
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From past to present and back to the future, noting ever wins forever. "vel carpe diem, vel noli carpere diem." -Ambassador of Chaos |
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22 Apr 2009, 7:00 AM
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#13 |
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Expert Mapper
Join Date: 6 Aug 2007
Location: France
Age: 41
Posts: 904
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yeah nice work !
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 -Section MAPS-  UPGRADE Gok Tileset Project Project: make a big campaign! for the communityHey!! sharelos Bob! ... Do you know ? 
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22 Apr 2009, 7:28 AM
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#14 |
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Biggest spammer ever.
Join Date: 6 Dec 2000
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 15,401
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One thing about Storms and Thuds that does give them a distinct advantage over Rockos and Hammers - they don't have any get-ready delay animation, they can fire pretty much straight away. They are almost always the first to get a shot off. This is really noticeable with Storms, it's the big reason why 10 storms tend to own 10 rockos pretty quickly.
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Mayhem Inc. -- Total Mayhem on ModDB -- Play TA online: TA Forever If you don't have a strategy, you're part of someone else's strategy. - Alvin Toffler, Futurist
My career highlight was making TA. Nothing has ever beat that, as I reflect back on the past 30 years. - Chris Taylor (Reddit AMA) |
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26 Apr 2009, 7:48 AM
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#15 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 26 Sep 2001
Posts: 173
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Wait, so I'm not seeing how the Bomber Stack is supposed to work. Any time I ever tell the bombers to attack something, they auto-spread out; even if I do a move order and then tell to attack right before they get there, they still spread out slightly - and that is apparently enough for them to die pretty easily. It does nicely center the damage, but it does not give them any more longevity at all from what I can tell.
Is there something I'm missing? I watched a recording of you on Lusch Puppy and while your stacks generally didn't stay perfectly on top of each other, they didn't tend to fan out either... |
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6 May 2009, 6:03 PM
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#16 |
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Core Commander
Join Date: 18 Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 120
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You have to do a move order and then an attack order right as they get there. The closer you can time it the better. A slight fanning with a deep enough stack will cause there to be 2 or 3 stacks that may all take damage, and again the damage from the dying bombers travels up the stack. Also if a stack dies right away it may be that the original stacking point is off, and that you may need to reassign it out of the lab. And if you're flying an 8 bomber stack through a cloud of AA, it doesn't really matter, because 8 bombers dying one at a time to a lot of AA will still die pretty fast.
If all your bombers still die at the same time, then maybe there is something I'm missing in how I do it. Either that I lag. (Although other people have duplicated the effect using Shadows.) I dunno, If you see me online we'll have a game and run some tests. |
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7 May 2009, 6:59 PM
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#17 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 9 Jan 2009
Posts: 569
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I enjoy this.
Keep going! I'm a corer.What even,corer had best player |
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8 May 2009, 9:13 AM
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#18 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 267
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A few things so far, you can incorporate them or not. storms and slashers seem to demolish samsons pretty well from what I've played core. Actually just storms in general just seem to own samsons, and mt's, the damage they deal out and can take is just better.
Another thing with the difference between the BB and the timmy. 1v1 the bb is a better weapon, but imo the timmy is a better piece of artillery, why? Well it can shoot further, but if you both build them at the exact same time generally you are going to lose your timmy. So how do you counteract this? Finks and shadows, he has to put his bb closer to your base than you do with the timmy as it has a shorter range. This often means that it is easier to destroy a bb from bombing, you don't need that many shadows and even if he has pretty good air defence its damned hard to stop 10 shadows going through his base wiping it out. Your stack strategy works pretty damned well from what I've tested. If you do manage to kill his bb from bombing, you have a timmy on him and he has nothing on you. At this point targetting his resources and adv air plants would be wise or your about to get hawk swarmed... As a sidenote why is the crasher such a bad unit? I've found it rather useful at the point where the game switches to mass hawks, I switch my labs over to crashers from storms to help give a little more anti air. Unfortunately Core cannot keep up with arm hawk production, so you either need to be able to kill a few hawks by other methods (aka air defence) or take out their resources and production. (Shadows) If you see him build an adv kbot lab hitting that will slow him down a bit but his resources are a far better target imo. (Fusions, collosus, big things) |
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9 May 2009, 9:57 AM
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#19 |
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Biggest spammer ever.
Join Date: 6 Dec 2000
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 15,401
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Should have stickied this earlier... it is now.
__________________
Mayhem Inc. -- Total Mayhem on ModDB -- Play TA online: TA Forever If you don't have a strategy, you're part of someone else's strategy. - Alvin Toffler, Futurist
My career highlight was making TA. Nothing has ever beat that, as I reflect back on the past 30 years. - Chris Taylor (Reddit AMA) |
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17 May 2009, 11:59 AM
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#20 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: 8 Sep 2001
Location: Minnesota
Age: 39
Posts: 6,686
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But back then it was called a "bomber stream".. and it was real.
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<Fox> I volunteer my writing services to any competitor of TAU's as retributition for deleting my news post. <Ktulu> you're supposed to get back at TAU, not reward it <Seaplane> OUCH |
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9 Nov 2009, 10:56 PM
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#21 |
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Core Commander
Join Date: 18 Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 120
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The rest?
Level Two K Bots
One important thing to note before I continue is that as a Core Commander, you need to have the game won, (or at least be ahead) before it gets to level two. Especially in a 1v1 game. At level two it is best to try to build resources and always stay ahead of your opponent, with fusions, Hives, Moho metal makers, and the whole nine yards of resource production. I have little to add to Beeky’s descriptions, so I will only comment on some of the units. Morty- The Morty rocks. A small pack of them screened with Slashers or storms are devastating. A handful can take down a guardian, and root out some of the most entrenched defenses. If you have to pick a level two land unit to build as Core, this is it. Also it is important to know that Mortys have the same climbing ability as Thuds, making them even more useful. Unlike the thud, you can simply click on the target you want them to shoot from the hill (without having to force fire close) and they will, unless the target is really close, hit it with pretty good accuracy. Keep the Morty in mind as a unit choice if the game ever gets to that point. Gimp- This unit is not all that useless. It is one of the best weapons against the Arm pelican. Move it into the water so that just it’s turret is sticking above the sealine. It will decimate incoming pelicans, and the pelicans won’t be able to hit it with their missiles or their lasers. Essentially they become pelican proof turrets. I have used them in some games and have jokingly referred to them as the “anti-pel” I’ve had some success experimenting with Gimps, but in general building a sea factory and getting some enforcers out, or just trying to mass produce Shadows has yielded better results. On the rare occasions where you have already built an advanced K bot factory, and need to cover a shoreline against pels or skeets that get to close, Gimps will prove more than adequate. Voyeur- The voyeur is the mobile radar K bot, not the Spy K bot as Beeky’s guide suggests. Its useful in that it creates +16 energy (Select the unit and turn it off). With the cost of just over 100 metal, it makes these more efficient than solars. The added benefit is that they build very quickly, especially if there is a commander nearby to guard it. On maps where real-estate is scarce, these can be an important economy boosting unit. Level Two Vehicles The single most useful unit out of the level two vehicle factory is the Construction vehicle. Only in special circumstances should any other unit be used from this factory. Beeky’s descriptions are perfect insight for the Core commander that is considering using the units. Level Two Ships Warlords rock, and are worth your time in the right situations, namely large sea battles where air is not that prevalent. Unless you have air superiority, they become a quick and easy target for bombers. Use them well and screen them with skeets and enforcers and they will easily rack up 100 kills or more. They’re also useful in unit cap situations. This demo demonstrates the power of Warlords: http://www.tadrs.tauniverse.com/inde...go=all&id=1783 Also build Hives, and don’t forget to turn them off for the extra energy. Level Two Air Vamp- The vamp is significantly inferior to the hawk. It is less maneuverable, does less damage, and dies faster than its Arm sibling. The only advantage is that the Vamp is easier to fly backwards than the Hawk. That said though, this is the only unit in Core’s arsenal that stands up to the Hawk, and it should be used exactly as the hawk is. Don’t expect it to do all of the legwork for you though Hurricane- This is an absolutely brilliant and magnificent bomber. It drops an inordinate amount of bombs that are lethally powerful. 2 of them can destroy advanced labs in a single pass, and it only takes a handful to make powder out of some of the toughest structures. Beeky is right though, the Shadow is superior simply because of its cost. The Hurricane can be stacked in exactly the same way that the Shadow can, which makes it even more powerful. If your opponent has some serious air defense, a Hurricane stack will be able to break it. Hurricane stacks can make short work of commanders, labs, anything really, they’re absolutely brutal. The thing is I can’t think of a single situation where an equivalent metal value of shadows will not be sufficient to eliminate any target. I’ve used Hurricanes very rarely in heavy anti air situation against an actively nano-blocking opponent. Really that is their one niche. The shadow and Shadow stack is so powerful, that you’ll rarely need to build Hurricanes. Rapier- Really its more fun than anything else. I’ve rarely used these, Vamps are more effective usually. I have had the rare occasion where I need a pinpoint airstrike on a fusion or group of Colossi where they can be used. The bomber stack has made these mostly obsolete. You can destroy more for cheaper cost. Fixed Structures: Intimidator: Oh the woes of the core. The intimidator is woefully innacurrate at the beginning of its life. Whenever you build one of these, you need to be prepared to actively nano-block any incoming attacks against it. You must train your Timmy by shooting other stuff before you attempt to peg some important structures. They do have longer range though, which will enable them to do more assuming the map is large enough. A 50 kill veteran Intimidator will wreak havoc on anything within its range, so take advantage of it if you manage to get it to survive that long. Oh this is a trick too. The intimidator almost always overshoots its first shot by about the range of a slasher. So, if you have a high profile target that you want to hit with the first shot, target approximately one slasher range in front of your target. If you’re lucky, you’ll knock out whatever you really wanted to hit. After that its guesswork… Good luck! |
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9 Nov 2009, 10:57 PM
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#22 |
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Core Commander
Join Date: 18 Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 120
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How to win:
And here is the most important question of all for all Core commanders. How the heck do you win games? Stepping back from the whole situation, the easy answer is to minimize Arm’s advantages while maximizing your own. Looking at the units, it means you need to make the Flash, Freedom Fighter, Pelican, Fark, Hawk and Fibber useless, while at the same time making the Weasel, Slasher, and Shadow incredibly useful (and all other units for that matter.) One of the easiest ways to maximize Core advantages is Map selection. Now the goal of a good player is to play all maps well but just follow along for a bit here. Lets say we want to minimize the usefulness of the Pelican. The easiest way to do that is to get it out of the water, where it is vulnerable and not all that useful. So, start with a map with no water. Pelican problem solved. And the fibber problem as well. Obviously this isn’t the best way to solve things, but I will now go on a map to map basis of examples of Core strategies. At no time should you consider these to be the stalwart strategies of the map. Each of them has a viable counter should your opponent know what is coming. So follow these to get your bare bones, but use your own creativity to put the meat on the skeleton. The Pass: This is the first ever map that was discovered as a Core map. The map minimizes all of Arms advantages. The Flash is easily D gunned as it attempts to emerge from the pass, the Freedom fighter is next to useless because air first is so uncommon. The pelican is utterly worthless. the Fark and Hawk are expensive, and the low resource nature of the map minimizes their advantage. The easiest and cheapest way to attack on this map is with level one bombers, and as raid bombing won’t happen, the Shadow is king. Standard K bot strategy: Begin by building a solar, and then walking to your first metal extractor. Build it and then place a wind in front of it. Move to the next one and then proceed to do the same. Build one more solar and then start building your K bot lab. (Kbots first! Oh no!) Immediately put out K bot cons. Have them come out of the lab and start reclaiming trees. This is where having a good grasp of resource management is important. You want to avoid excessing both energy and metal, yet at the same time you want to avoid stalling. Build Metal makers and you’ll spend the next few minutes flipping them on and off as your K bots go around and grab trees. Eventually you’ll run out of trees. At some point (assuming you have not been bombed.) You should build a second K bot lab. Now remember, normally you want to avoid idle cons. But in this situation the cons are your resources, so if they are idle it is okay. What is most important is to avoid stalling. Keep as many busy as possible but make sure you do not stall. At around 8 minutes you should have your second lab up and running, guarded by two K bot cons. Have them come out of the bottom of the lab, as this will be the easiest way to get it to work. At around 12 minutes or so you should have enough metal to put down your first air lab. Build a couple scouts and then build Shadows. Scout out your enemy, and remember to mark everything. Missile towers, labs. Devise your own marking system of lines and dots to represent certain things. Having to use text markers for everything will greatly slow down your marking. Now bomb everything. Remember due to the elevation of the pass, the bombers will overshoot their target. When you are flying off of the mountain, select about 2 bomber lengths before the target. When you are flying off of the back of the screen, (because the land disappears off the edge of the map on The pass) you must click about 2 bomber lengths behind your target. The next ten minutes or so can determine the game. If you feel like it will be worth it build missile towers in the middle of the pass, or move crashers and storms up in the middle to give your own anti-air defenses line of sight. Oh and remember, you have at least 2 dozen K bot cons walking around. Each air lab should have 4 guarding out bombers, and one sitting by a wind in front of the plant. If you feel that the plant is being targeted by the enemy bombers. Select your K bot con, then select the wind, and hold shift while holding it over your currently built wind. As it gets destroyed, click as fast as you can. This will more or less make your lab 3 to 4 times as strong. Especially against Arm bombers. (consequently this will also protect against a bomber stack.) Note that there is no need to go advanced air as core. While the hurricane is technically a better bomber, advanced labs are more of a target, and are more expensive. You’re better off making tons of shadows Now as you bomb you need to move into the late game. Eventually you’re going to want to build an advanced K bot lab. Build a couple advanced K bot cons and then start building nukes all over the place. Focus on one to get it done, but make lots for him to mark and keep track of. Use the shift nanoblock on this, Core nukes are incredibly difficult to kill. Have your advanced K bot lab continue to put out Voyeurs. Turn them off for the energy boost. Hopefully you can bomb and nuke your enemy into submission. Dark Side: In order to win on this you must be able to radar target slashers. That is really the most important facet of it. Begin by building one solar, one mex, and then another solar, build a two weasels, a slasher, and a solitary construction vehicle. After your weasels are out you should walk your com build a third solar and cap the remaining two mexes. Have your con go reclaim rocks while your com gets radar up and then starts pushing out slashers. Once you have enough slashers to defend yourself, build a leveler. Using the low gravity overshoot (which you’ll have to practice to get it down) fire shell your enemies key positions into submission. This strategy is very unit control intensive, it really has less to do with the building and more on how you control your slasher and how well you overshoot a leveler. To make overshooting easier, fire your first shot, and then watch where it goes. Then if you want to bring the shot closer, Hold shift, then see where your original shot was and then move it away from the leveler. I’ve had levelers get over 50 kills on extended dark side games, they’re brutal when shot correctly. Lava and Two Hills: This map is similar to the pass, but there is more resource. Still, the K bot strategy works here. Basically follow the same build for the pass, but do not build the second K bot lab until you have your first air lab up, and after you have your Geothermal capped. (unless you have to build a K bot lab down low because you lost the missile tower fight for the middle.) Build metal extractors on the ground for the small metal income they produce. And gradually build up your missile tower defenses. As you bomb you’ll need to keep an eye out for fusions as well as big berthas. If they get a fusion up it’ll be the downfall of you. Eventually you’ll need to figure out a way to end the game. Nukes, a Timmy, or a small swarm of vamps will help you conclude the game. Focus your bombing on the geothermal as well. If you keep their geothermal down, you’ll be sure to keep a decent lead so long as they don’t get any more significant resource production going. |
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9 Nov 2009, 10:58 PM
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#23 |
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Core Commander
Join Date: 18 Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 120
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Lusch Puppy: This map is a lesson in building and bombing. Many arm players here will go straight for the big bertha which can shoot over the hill. As core that means you should go straight for the Shadow, and bomb the crap out of the first thing that they build that costs a significant amount of metal.
The building lesson on this map is pretty simple. Capping all of your metal extractors as quickly as possible is your first objective. Build one solar, 3 metal extractors and then two more solars, and then build nothing but construction vehicles out of your lab to begin with. Grab some trees with the first few to aid your commander in building another solar, and then proceed to cap about 4 mexes each with each con. Have them then go on to build some Missile towers and solars to keep your energy afloat. Once you have about 400 metal in storage, begin the walk to the water. Build your shipyard, (after a few tidals if you need the energy) and crank out 3 cons. Reclaim the shipyard, making sure you don’t excess. Using the metal from your shipyard and your vehicle plant (After you cap underwater mexes on both sides) begin your advanced shipyard. On land you probably have enough metal to get your first air plant cranking as well as start your advanced vehicle lab. Control your resources, making sure you don’t stall. Use Hives and moho metal makers to fuel your economy. The second lesson is bombing here. Begin by bombing out metal extractors and missile towers. Note that there are multiple elevations here. As you fly over the hill you’ll have to aim in front, and then behind, or directly on the subsequent plateau. Basically its going to take practice. Eventually you’ll have your bomber stacks cranking. Use these to eliminate high profile targets. Kill fusions, advanced shipyards, and Colossi first, then go after air plants, and vehicle plants. Mark flakkers as well and be sure to sling some bombs at them as you pass. Sweep bombing lines of missile towers with a small stack of bombers will help eliminate some of your air resistance. At all times you should have one air lab building scouts. Be scouting constantly. You need to know about any fusions, berthas and nukes as they are being constructed. Keep your enemies resource level low, and bomb resources first and foremost if you’re not in any serious danger. Keep your commander hidden and out of sight. You can build thuds to shell him from the hill, which will distract and annoy your opponent, and eventually if you build up a vamp swarm, you can use the thuds as line of sight units, as well as units to distract Missile towers for your bombing runs and vamp attacks. This map is probably balanced for core and arm. Arm has the advantage of a faster commander and faster construction vehicles, as well as the more accurate bertha, but Core has the advantage of thuds and shadows. Remember, your objective is to maximize Core’s advantages (In this case the Thud, Morty, and Shadow) and minimize theirs (Big bertha, hawk, and Fark). Note that killing the Arm commander’s Advanced K bot lab will usually slow down their hawk progress. Most Arm vermin cannot fathom building hawks without the help of farks, and will almost always spend the metal to replace their advanced K bot lab immediately. The Cold Place: This map is an Arm vermin map. Core can only get the win by getting the jump on their opponent. There are a few ways to do this (Weasel rush (1 wind->plant->Weasel), Air rush) My personal favorite and one that has earned me the criticism of many for sticking with it is the radar targeting push. Radar Targeting: Note that this strategy is easily countered if the opponent knows it is coming. Begin by building one wind, capping two of your mexes and then building a second wind. Begin building your plant. Push out a pair of weasels, build a third wind, and guard out two construction vehicles. Have your commander cap the final mex and build a fourth wind, and have him guard the plant as you queue up 25 Slashers or so. The concept is simple. Your opponent, being arm, is going to flashker you to death, and raid you from multiple angles. So lets say he does the same thing and builds his flashkers. He sends them south, around the bottom, and builds a con and sends it in that direction as well. Your two construction vehicles are only going to build in the north toward the enemy. The flashes he sends down south are, for the moment, wasted, as they drive around with nothing to shoot at. The ones he sends north are most likely going to be out numbered by slashers up north. If you manage to kill 4 or 5 flashes up north with your slashers, without losing a single slasher or con, the game is most likely yours. Have your first con move pretty far forward, ignoring the metal patches, and build radar. Move all of your slashers as they come out toward this. Keep moving your radar up and radar targeting the flashes as they come. You’ll win the wreckage fields. Have your second con build the metal extractors and have your first build radar if you can’t see dots to shoot at (or you’re running out) and when its not building radar it should be reclaiming, finally if you can’t keep it safe reclaiming, build missile towers. Eventually you’ll be able to build two more winds and a second vehicle plant as you continue to be aggressive. Your opponent will have no choice but to put everything he has into defending himself. Occasionally push one slasher up to get line of sight to see what they’re up to. If they start to build a guardian and you have no way to slasher it to death, then begin reclaiming as much as possible and fall back, keeping your slashers alive. Switch to nothing but construction vehicles from your main plant, and build winds everywhere. Hopefully by the time the guardian is done you have 1500 metal worth of winds operating, Shift your attention south, and try to grab as much land as possible, again using the same radar push technique. Start amassing storms, and eventually, if you’re outproducing your opponent (while focusing your slashers down south.) you’ll have enough storms to overrun the enemy in the north. (As their attention will have shifted south, believing they are safe behind their solitary guardian) This is a very unit control intensive strategy. If you cannot radar target well, or react quickly and run your slashers away when flashes appear, you will most likely find yourself defeated. Practice, again, is the key to mastering the radar targeting fight, and you’ll find that flashes die remarkably easy when sent against 20 or so slashers. Strategic and Tactical Generalities Now remember that your objective it is to minimize Arm’s advantages while maximizing your own. There are two other advantages that you need to keep in mind that Arm has. The first one is the faster commander. If you start out your game by walking to four metal extractors, and the Arm commander does as well, you’re going to be several seconds behind. The first thing to remember is that your commander is first and foremost a builder. Do your best to keep him busy without walking. Sometimes it might even be better to idle your commander for a few seconds to allow construction vehicles to finish resources before having him resuming his guarding stance. There are a few situations where walking your commander to a different location other than the start is warranted, but be warned, if your opponent does the same thing, you’re setting yourself up for failure, as the faster Arm commander will run laps around your fat and slow Core Commander. The second advantage is the faster construction vehicles. This advantage is difficult to minimize, but there are a few ways to ensure that you remain ahead. Killing and disrupting construction vehicles with weasels is one of the most cost effective way to do this. Lets say you build 3 construction vehicles and your opponent builds 3 as well. If you kill one with weasels then your 3 cons, while slower than their arm counterparts, will build faster than 2 arm cons. In the same way that killing your opponents construction vehicles is important, it is equally important to protect your own. While this applies for Arm vs. Arm games, it applies even more so when you are Core. Also building an extra construction vehicle on maps that you can protect them with fewer units (Keep in mind that there is a trade off between building power and units) can help you get ahead of the Arm vermin. Another generality for Core Commanders is to lose the fear of going air first. I have noticed that many players will never go air first, usually stating that they don’t think they’re good enough at bombing, or that its too risky. It is self-defeating in that in order to get good at bombing, one has to practice it. If one never practices because of the fear of failure, one will never get good and the cycle continues. Go air first on maps when it doesn’t even make sense to in 1v1s some times. The first time you do it you’ll probably end up failing. Working on your bombing skills and timing required to effectively bomb an opponent early in the game will help separate you from the average Core commander. One day it’ll just happen though, you’ll be playing an opponent who out-classes you, you’ll go bomber first, bomb them to nothing, and then win the game in five minutes. It may take 100 games, but it will happen. One of the more important things that I learned in TA is that adaptability is a measure of success. I first started winning games against top players with carefully calculated strategies, with a step by step plan that would ensure victory if each step could be completed. After winning a few such games, people examined my play, and then picked apart my strategies, and in turn demolished me with little effort. I adapted poorly and slowly, enabling my opponents to either adopt my strategies and execute them better, or to break a link in the chain. The point is that you must be able to adapt. I was told by Diablo that he never planned anything in TA more than a few structures ahead at a time. He never entered with a build order or a plan; everything was made up on the spot. This completely flexible approach would be the total opposite of what I was practicing. Really the best place to be, in my opinion, is somewhere in the middle. You need to have a plan, and a method with which to execute it, but at the same time, you must be ready to adapt. You must realize when your plan has failed and change it immediately to accommodate your new circumstances. Versatility is key, embrace it or lose. |
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9 Nov 2009, 10:59 PM
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#24 |
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Core Commander
Join Date: 18 Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 120
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Conclusions
So as a Core Commander it is most important to know that defeat is going to be your mantra for the longest time. Getting a hang of a play style that is slower, and in general inferior to your Arm opponents is going to be a tough task. However certain perks and advantages actually do make core the logical choice on some maps in 1v1, and a decent choice on even more maps in a 2v2. Note that the strategies listed above can be used in different situations. Especially the slasher radar creep. In 2v2 and 3v3 land games where the lane of play is more narrow, it is especially powerful. Also note that the strategies listed, are easily countered if your opponent knows what is coming and is sufficiently skilled enough to stop you. Be flexible, and change your take on the game as it progresses. Also in conclusion, nothing is more satisfying that decimating someone as Core after they tell you that you should play Arm because it is better. In a way, it makes all the losing seem that much more worth it. So go forth, Core Commander, armed with knowledge into the field of battle and claim victories for Core, and grind the worthless flesh of the Arm beneath your heels! Special thanks- Vapor- No one has taught me more about the game than him. Countless hours and over a 100 games on Pheonix Worx let me know how this game works. Getting owned over 80 games in a row helped me finally figure out how to win. And when that win came, man was it sweet. He also introduced me to TADRS, and the demos of Cytree. After watching Cytree it seemed to me that winning as Core was possible. He also offered countless hours of TA and life advice, like this gem: (Regarding Weed and TA ability): Vapor> and you couldn't have gotten better Vapor> weed makes you forgetful and slow Vapor> its not like crack rocks Vapor> thats how BF got good Vapor> the drugs made him quick Vapor> thats chemistry Emaciator- The Anti-Me. Put up with countless games against me as I experimented with more and more bizarre strategies. Without his input, many of the peculiar things that I do with core wouldn’t happen. RVD- The person who has tried to tell me the most to play Arm. I’ve learned plenty in the countless times I’ve lost versus him. To date the only one to actually win a best of 10 with me… AnarkyDiablo-Had his fingers in the development of some of these strategies, and definitely made an impact on the way I played and looked at the game. FFAxers- Boldok, HEXdump, Taipan, Iceskull, MM3, Mach, Dave, Corb, Safeway- Late-night team games were tons of fun, and I figured out how to play beyond 1v1 after several severe beatings. And back in 2002 I tried so hard, and finally beat Iceskull… Crowning achievement for me. Beeky- For writing such a definitive guide to TA units. Made my job pretty easy here. Oh and for teaching me to be aggressive on Greenhaven. Aero- For hosting games and for TAU. You rule. Hats off to the Core commanders of old- Wargod, Cytree, Gnug315, and Novice. Rick and Pacer- For TAzone, and all of its goodies. And of course Tiptushi, Aprox, Med, Jackson, Russian, Red Dragon, Crater, rANDY, Juul, TCBW, Glufetz, NLJ, Molloy, Abe, Venom, Iggij, Snoop, Doll, Cosmicbaby, Frank, Pigfish, Dange, AK, MonkeH, Lerkule, Woody, Coolnick, and all of those other people who have put up with me being an easy win for so long/have hosted the servers/ made awesome maps. |
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10 Nov 2009, 12:40 AM
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#25 |
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Biggest spammer ever.
Join Date: 6 Dec 2000
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 15,401
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Thanks for this
you reminded me to check out energy making and useage of all radar and sonar units. All of the mobile ones - kbots, vehicles and planes - are pretty useless for radar, but are more cost-effective than solars for energy production. Sonars and Advanced sonars also, better than tidals on most maps for energy. LOL what were Cavedog smoking? 
__________________
Mayhem Inc. -- Total Mayhem on ModDB -- Play TA online: TA Forever If you don't have a strategy, you're part of someone else's strategy. - Alvin Toffler, Futurist
My career highlight was making TA. Nothing has ever beat that, as I reflect back on the past 30 years. - Chris Taylor (Reddit AMA) |
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23 Feb 2010, 8:30 PM
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#26 |
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LoC_Aerobic1
Join Date: 30 Jan 2009
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 59
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Damn this is a good thread! I still come back to it all the time. You da man Postal! *HighFive*
~Aero~ |
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24 Feb 2010, 1:27 AM
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#27 |
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Super Heavy Assault Kbot
Join Date: 9 Mar 2008
Location: Maryland, USA, Planet Earth
Posts: 168
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postal, what about Krogoth?
__________________
 Whats all this then...
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13 May 2010, 2:22 PM
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#28 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 2 May 2010
Posts: 11
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I noticed that you encounter Flash with your Gators and immediately flee then the Flash will have trouble scoring hits if they pursue, while the Gators lasers are much more accurate in the running battle, and can actually inflict more damage.
Also, the Core geothermal is cheaper than the Arms. This is worth noting as the Arms solar and wind are both cheaper than the Cores. The Punisher is cheaper than the Guardian. The Core MT is cheaper than the Arms. So dig in! The Fink is cheaper than the Peeper. The Slasher is not only better than the Sampson, it's also cheaper. The Diplomat is cheaper than the Merl. The Cores Moho MM is much cheaper than the Arms, but generate less metal. The Arms MMM is more efficient, generates 18 metal and should be a priority target. The Core Adv CV is cheaper than the Arms. Last edited by Madgrenade; 14 May 2010 at 1:00 PM. |
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17 Dec 2010, 8:22 AM
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#29 |
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Cybernetic Command
Join Date: 16 Dec 2010
Location: New Zealand
Age: 37
Posts: 18
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Very interesting and indepth read Postal, I found many useful and insightful tips and suggestions and possible strategies to begin working with, and afew times stunned that i had no idea of such given example or method.
I've always prefered Core since playing all those years ago and have recently purchased (well not so recently, few months ago now) TA again though this time having the benifit to try out Tactics and Core Contingency via Impulse. Since purchase i havent really had the time to sit down and take it all in untill now, which seemingly has been worth the wait to become part of what appears to be a close nit community with plenty of help and support around the enjoyment of Total Annihilation and it's extensions. So it's greatly appreciated by myself, thanks for providing the time and effort into taking a closer look into the Core campus. Beekys Guide was another great read they complement each other well, though you have mentioned. Twisted Trip - |
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29 Jun 2011, 1:53 PM
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#30 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 2 May 2010
Posts: 11
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anti flash weasel "rush"
Thought I'd share this for those having trouble with early flash attack. This has worked well against my LAN buddies, and none of us are eta retards.
The problem with fighting ARM is that if an early flash shows up it can finish you off before you even get a chance to compete. On a land map you must get there first. So when you first open your vehicle plant knock out three weasels. Its possible to do it with two but three is better. Have a pair go on an early flank attack and bring the third up the other flank. You are after wind and mex, killing even one is major victory and will boost youmorale, but your main objective is to piss off his commie and get him to cancel his build queue. This buys you precious seconds. Do this right and you should have enough time to get enough slashers together to defend against that first rush. And if you bagged a few mex then you should be in q strong position to continue your campaign. Note: if you get back to your base and have idle commie or cons then youare doing it wrong. For this to work you must keep up in the build race or your gains will be for nothing . The good thing about this gambit is that it doesn't matter if your opponent knows its coming. If he builds an mt then that's a con not building resource. If he intercepts with flash that's one flash not heading to your base. Run away and watch his flash chase you into no man's land. Then attack with the lone flanker. This strata may not give you much of a reprieve but its better than having the first flash off the line trundle into your seedling base. A. |
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7 Mar 2016, 5:13 AM
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#31 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 26 Feb 2016
Age: 39
Posts: 24
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I have found as the Core Commander is so fekking slow, I use a valkerie as his flying back pack. and when not in use, it guards him so is always nearby. As the Arm commander is faster than you, an early valkerie can make up the difference.
Hell you can fly your commander near your enemy base near the beginning of a game, walk into his base, blow up his MTs and vehicle lab/s, walk out and fly back to base, givng you a heavy early advantage. and alot of players dont see this coming |
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7 Mar 2016, 10:59 AM
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#32 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 26 Feb 2016
Age: 39
Posts: 24
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Heres Another one for Core.
On a map like Yarrot Mountains, build an intimidator in your base (or on a hill) get a valkerie to unload a weasel onto a mountain half way between your base and the enemy base. put the weasel on a tight patrol on said mountain. Fire the Intimidator at the weasel. Not only will the timmy miss your weasel (until he a veteran) the timmy shot will sail right across the map, and has a tendancy to hit your enemy base. (not accuretely) but this can cause severe disruption and your enemy will never guess that the timmy is in fact firing upto double its range, from the confines of your base. You can do this with a Bertha, however the Bertha has a large tendancy to actually hit the scout (i havent tried this with a buzzsaw but would probably be quite funny if it got working) |
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16 Mar 2016, 3:25 PM
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#33 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 12 Oct 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 408
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You get the same effect by shooting close to the foot of the bb/timmy
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19 Sep 2017, 5:32 AM
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#34 |
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Core Commander
Join Date: 18 Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 120
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I sure did write a lot...
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Linear Mode
